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The Secret to Conversion Rate Optimization, with BDOW’s Davey Jones

Davey Jones Deal Closers Podcast

Today we’re talking about the power of targeted messaging and offers, and the secret to driving successful digital marketing and lead conversion.

Davey Jones understands buyer personas, and why it’s critical to address the question, “Can you really do that for someone like me?”—a query that reassures customers about the product’s relevance to their needs.

By effectively leveraging tools such as discount campaigns, in-cart bump offers, and A/B testing, Davey believes businesses can fine-tune their messaging to resonate deeply with their target audience and drive sales.

And that’s exactly what we all want – more sales and more profitability. So let’s find out how!

(00:03:46) E-commerce Lead Generation with Targeted Popups

(00:06:41) Strategic Checkout Discounts for Increased Sales

(00:09:19) Conversion-Boosting Exit Intent Strategies

(00:17:10) Personalized Lead Generation with Interactive Quizzes

(00:24:18) Leveraging Email Lists for Business Success

(00:26:51) Boosting Cart Value with Bump Offers

(00:36:53) Boost Conversion Rates with Badao’s Pop-Up Tools

Davey Jones is the CEO of BDOW and the co-host of the Brands that Book Podcast.

This episode of Deal Closers is hosted by Izach Porter, brought to you by, and is produced by Earfluence.


Davey Jones – 00:00:06:


When I talk to my team, we really talk about that question. Can you really do that for someone like me? And what are the different levers that you can pull that reinforce that you can offer whatever transformation is that you’re offering? What are those levers that you can pull to back that up? I think anytime you make a claim on your website, you should back that claim up with social proof. Somebody putting into their own words how your product or service helped them achieve whatever desired result.


Izach Porter – 00:00:42:


All right. You’re listening to the Deal Closers podcast brought to you by A show about how to build your e-commerce business to be profitable, scalable, and one day even sellable. Today’s guest is Davey Jones, CEO of BDOW!, spelled B-D-O-W, which makes stunning forms, including pop-ups to increase conversion rates. He’s also the co-host of the Brands That Book podcast, along with his wife, Krista, and together they also build a lot of websites. Davey has a lot going on, but today we’re here to talk about digital marketing and how we can increase conversion rates. Typically in e-commerce, our conversion rates are about 1% to 4%, depending on the industry. If we can increase that rate by 1% or even a half a percent, that instantly makes our brands more profitable and a lot more attractive to potential buyers when you get ready to exit. So let’s find out how we can start to move that needle and increase our conversion rates. Welcome to the show, Davey. Great to have you, man.


Davey – 00:01:47:


Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here, especially having just gone through an acquisition.


Izach – 00:01:51:


Okay, cool. Well, let’s talk about that. I’ve got a lot of questions for you about BDOW!, but, um, Did BDOW! do an acquisition or was this for another business that you own or what was the backstory there?


Davey – 00:02:05:


Yeah, so BDOW! was acquired. So BDOW! was formerly Sumo or SumoMe. So a lead generation tool you may have heard of or listeners may have heard of. A pretty popular tool back in the day. I think back when you thought lead generation or forms and pop-ups on a website, Sumo was the go-to tool. So we acquired that in late of 2023. And we’ve since rebranded to BDOW!. Part of the reason because the Sumo group still exists. They own AppSumo. And KingSumo and other Sumo-related tools. So just for clarity, that’s part of the reason why we rebranded.


Izach – 00:02:42:


Awesome. All right. I wonder if they have any actual Sumos that work at Sumo.


Davey – 00:02:48:


Yeah, asking them about their name was interesting. I actually just had a conversation with Noah about that. But no, not really any Sumo connection.


Izach – 00:02:59:


Okay. Yeah. I get the reference though, the size, the scale, power, all that stuff. But tell us about BDOW! because that’s what we’re here to talk about. And really what I’m interested in is just picking your brain on conversion rate. I think this is one of the most important. Levers that brands can pull, obviously to drive profitability and increase sales. But as they get ready to start thinking about preparing for an exit, that conversion rate is really one of the primary drivers that optimizes the business and ultimately drives value in the sale process. So it’s really important for what I do and for what a lot of our listeners are doing. I guess let’s just start off with BDOW!. What are you guys doing and what’s kind of your thesis?


Davey – 00:03:46:


Yeah, we’re a lead generation tool for websites. So think forms and pop-ups. We make it easy for businesses, especially e-commerce businesses, to create on-brand, highly targeted forms and pop-ups. And that’s really where we differ, I think, from a lot of tools out there, especially if you’re thinking about the forms and pop-ups that might be native to whatever website builder you’re using. What we allow users to do is get really specific with their targeting so that they’re getting the right message or right offer in front of the right people. And that combined with A/B testing really allows for, I think, a lot of flexibility for brands to test different messaging or test different offers as well. And you can get super specific with your targeting too. So a lot of email service providers, a lot of website builders out there might have pop-ups, but really you can take that to the next level with BDOW!, with how you target visitors. So regardless of whether you want to target new visitors or you want to target visitors on specific pages or that have certain parameters or even come from a certain URL. So if you’re running maybe some sort of campaign with a partner, you can target people that came from that website to your website. One of the things that we do, we run Facebook and Instagram ads, as many brands do. Occasionally, we don’t want that campaign to show up or be visible to everybody on our website, only the people who came from Facebook or Instagram to remind them why they clicked on that ad. And so we’re able to set up pop-ups that show up just when somebody comes from Facebook or Instagram.


Izach – 00:05:21:


Okay, so let’s talk about maybe a use case for that. So I’ve got a promotion I’m running on Instagram, some type of a paid media, and that generates a click. And somebody lands on my, let’s say my Shopify page. And now… Now what?


Davey – 00:05:41:


Yeah. So now they would see a pop-up if it’s set to trigger only for people who come from Facebook or Instagram. The advantage of that, for instance, is maybe you’re targeting a cold audience on Facebook or Instagram. And so what I mean by cold audience is somebody or visitors who have never heard of you before. So in Facebook and Instagram, you can get very specific with your targeting. And so typically you’re going to be running maybe some ads that are retargeting, right? So people who have heard of you before or to cold audiences, people who maybe have never landed on your website before, maybe it consists of a lookalike audience. So when people land on your website, you can then show them whatever offer it is that you were offering on Facebook or Instagram. So let’s say you’re running a Facebook specific campaign, 20% off whatever it is that you’re selling. You can follow up with people on your website with a pop-up that promotes that 20% off offer. But for certain reasons, maybe you don’t want that to be visible to everybody who lands on your website.


Izach – 00:06:41:


Okay. All right. I got that. And then what about for, so I’m thinking of BDOW!. This is, let’s say, let’s take it to an extreme of the brand. I think that uses the most pop-ups that I’ve ever seen. Let’s think about Timu. So I go on Timu and there’s a lot of these, spin the wheel for discounts. If you check out on the next. Five minutes, you get an extra discount. They’re constantly given that. It’s almost like a gamified shopping experience. Yeah, how does that compare to maybe what BDOW! is doing? Do you have the capabilities to do those type of promos, spin the wheel discounts, things like that as well?


Davey – 00:07:23:


Yeah, so we don’t have the spin the wheel discounts. We used to have those in the app. And we’ve temporarily got rid of those in part just because the performance load that it causes on a website. So we’ll revisit that at some point. But we do have integrations with WooCommerce and Shopify. So when somebody fills out a form, you can give them a unique discount code that’s specific to that person. And the advantage of doing that is because you can create a sense of urgency around using that discount code. So often, I think the people that use that most successfully are the people who then follow up via email and remind people that they have that discount code or text for that matter. But they follow up with that person and they say, hey, remember, you have this discount code. And again, this discount code is just because of the integration with WooCommerce or Shopify, unique to them, already generated for them. But hey, remember, you have this discount code. And if you have this discount code, you use this in the next 24 hours or 48 hours or whatnot, you can get whatever it is that you’re offering people.


Izach – 00:08:25:


Okay. So everything is targeted at trying to get people to… Get to the cart, check out, and transact with your site.


Davey – 00:08:35:


Yeah, so and that’s…


Izach – 00:08:36:


You transact with your brand, yeah.


Davey – 00:08:38:


Absolutely. And that’s one aspect of the tool. I mean, you can use it just to build your list as well. So we make it easy to integrate with whatever email service provider you’re using and send those people who subscribe to your form off to your email service provider. Right in BDOW!, you can include downloads. So if you’re offering some sort of download in exchange for an email address, that’s easy to load up right there in BDOW!.


Izach – 00:09:05:


That’s very cool. Yeah. So what’s the upshot of this? What are you seeing in terms of increased conversion rates? Do you have any kind of case studies about? I guess the efficacy of BDOW! and the tool maybe compared to some other folks that are out there.


Davey – 00:09:20:


Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I think a lot of people, they think that forms, or I’m sorry, pop-ups are annoying. Nobody really thinks, it’s like email, right? Nobody thinks, I want another email, right? So when they’re on a website, but they are very effective. And that’s why so many different websites utilize things like pop-ups. One of my favorite recent case studies is these brand photographers, they’re selling courses on how to become brand photographers. And one of the things that they do is a webinar, so they send people off to a free training, and then the free training sells people into their course. One of the things they noticed was a drop-off on the webinar registration page. And so they incorporated a exit intent pop-up. And so an exit intent pop-up is simply a pop-up that appears as somebody scrolls towards that X in the tab. So before somebody were to close out the window, and they were able to generate nearly 200 more registrations utilizing that exit intent pop-up. So people who were going to exit without registering. And what that translates into for them is thousands of extra dollars in course sales from those 200 extra people who registered.


Izach – 00:10:35:


That’s pretty cool. Somebody starts moving their mouth towards the X to close the window. And this pop-up comes up and says, maybe it’s a discount or, hey, wait before you leave, check out this offer, something like that. It gets them to basically change their mind or take an action before they close.


Davey – 00:10:50:


Yeah. And you know, the way they did it is they offered a bonus for registering for the webinar. So basically if you register for the webinar right now, we’ll also give you, you know, I forget what it is like a guide to pricing your services or something like that. And so, you know, it’s again, interesting because people might want that and think, Oh, I don’t want the webinar. Right. But what happened was people signed up for that, um, by signing up for that, right. They’re also signing up for their, their webinar registration. At the very least, they’re giving these brand photographers their email. And so via email sequence on the backside, they’re able to follow up with these people. And so these people become leads, whereas, you know, beforehand, uh, they would have just exited the page.


Izach – 00:11:31:


Ah, I gotcha. Okay. What are some of the mistakes that e-commerce businesses make? When they’re trying to increase conversion rates. Like how are people getting it wrong? You know, how are brands getting it wrong with… The attempt to increase pull through.


Davey – 00:11:50:


Yeah, for sure. I think understanding what your audience is really selling. I think when it comes to mistakes, a lot of what people focus on, or a lot of the go-to examples are around things like website performance. And I think website performance is important, for sure. But I think it can be a bit of a red herring for people as well. And I think…


Izach – 00:12:09:


You’re talking about load speeds and things like that.


Davey – 00:12:12:


Yeah, exactly. And I think, like I said, those things are important. I think that websites like Shopify and ShowIt and others out there, they make creating a slow website kind of difficult.


Izach – 00:12:23:




Davey – 00:12:24:


I don’t think that’s quite as much of a problem as it was back when everybody was on maybe WordPress and it was kind of a build your own adventure and you could really weigh your site down with all sorts of plugins and tools and things like that. Don’t get me wrong. That’s still one of the first things that we check. But one of the biggest mistakes I think I see people make is understanding what your audience is really purchasing. And I think this is sort of a preliminary step that a lot of businesses don’t actually go through the activity of actually writing these things down. And so many businesses, I think, focus more on features than they do benefits. I think maybe an example will help here. Looking at the fitness industry, I think the fitness industry does a really good job overall of this distinction between features and benefits. When you’re buying an exercise program, you’re not really buying the workout program. Nobody signs up for a workout program thinking, oh, yes, I got 60 to 90 minutes of exercises to do each day. What they’re buying is the benefit that fitness program is promising. So six-pack abs, feeling more confident about yourself, having more energy. But what they do is they get more specific than even that. I think most benefits, they fall into one of three categories, health, wealth, and reputation. Again, if you look at the fitness industry, I think they do a really good job of speaking to a specific buyer persona, and so I’m a dad to two boys. And so the fitness programs that I’m looking at are a lot different than what I was looking at when I was playing college lacrosse. I’m looking at programs that are just going to keep me healthy and that I can get done quickly so that I have more time with my boys and I’m healthier for them. And they get super specific about those things.


Izach – 00:14:12:


Come on, you still want that six-pack, don’t you?


Davey – 00:14:15:


Oh, I said, you know, who doesn’t?


Izach – 00:14:17:


I don’t know, man. You might have it. You look like you got some guns there, brother.


Davey – 00:14:20:


Yeah. Thanks, man. Well, I mean, really a lot of working out for me these days is just, again, trying to fit it in around my two boys’ schedule.


Izach – 00:14:30:


No, you’re absolutely right. And it’s an interesting example of fitness because it’s so tangible, right? Because they show you the before and after picture. And it really is all about the benefits. And it’s actually the… The features that are the hard part to execute on when you buy those programs in a lot of cases but, and the other one I would think about is like, you know, like business and self-help courses, right? That you mentioned one of the main things was health, wealth, right? So there’s a lot of content out there to help you build wealth or build businesses or build an e-commerce business or build a, speaking business. And those are usually focused around the monetary outcome, the benefit of those businesses. That makes a lot of sense.


Davey – 00:15:14:


Yeah. And I think the most important or one of the questions that people are asking themselves anytime they make a purchase is, can you really do that, whatever it is that you’re promising, for someone like me? And I think it lets you get really clear on who that someone like me is, who that buyer persona is. Then a lot of messaging falls flat. And honestly, when we’re working with people, especially on the website design side of things, that’s something we’re constantly trying to get people to get more clear on. Because like I said, using the fitness industry as an example, there are a million workout programs out there. But the ones that do really well are the ones that get super specific. Before I stepped into the CEO role for BDOW!, I ran an ad agency. And one of the fitness programs that we were helping sell was by this girl who only served other women who were 5’1 and shorter. And she talked about how the metabolism is different and all those things. But when you land on her website, you know, very much, if you’re a woman, 5’1 and shorter, that this is the program for you.


Izach – 00:16:20:


Do you ever hear of a program called V Shred? There’s a guy named Vince that’s like this ripped dude.


Davey – 00:16:25:


Who hasn’t? I mean, you get on YouTube and you get it.


Izach – 00:16:28:


He’s everywhere, right? I mean, he’s crushing it. But one of the interesting things is with his funnels, and I’ve got no affiliation with him, by the way, but with his funnels, one of the first things they do is they have you select what’s your body type, what’s your age, what’s your gender. And I think all of that is, putting people into a funnel that then is directed at that specific subtype of people. So it’s kind of the same thing as the example you said with the woman under 5’1. He’s just got it broken down so that you just tell them what you are and then their marketing, then the marketing is tailored directly to, you know, a six foot. A 200 pound man that wants to lose 25 pounds, you know, that kind of thing. So that’s really, I didn’t really put that together that that was what he’s doing until you connected those dots for me. So that’s pretty cool.


Davey – 00:17:10:


Awesome. Yeah. And 100%. I mean, I think using online quizzes as a lead generation tool, amazing thing. We just started exploring a partnership with Interact, which is an online quiz making tool. And one of the cool things is that you can take your Interact quiz and you can embed it into a BDOW! form. And you can take advantage of all the targeting features that I just mentioned. So that you’re targeting people on the specific pages that you want to target people with that quiz. And you can embed the quiz right in the pop-up. So they can take the quiz in the pop-up without having to leave to go to some sort of landing page. But online quizzes do a really good job of, to your point, really making you feel like, oh, this is tailored toward me, and this is right for me. And that’s the thing I think, in terms of mistakes that people make, is really overlooking social proof or not using social proof well. Something like over 50% of buyers look at reviews, before they make a purchase. And so incorporating social proof becomes really, really important. I mean, I look at reviews for everything.


Izach – 00:18:12:


Oh, I do too. Absolutely. Yeah. I tend to put more credence in the reviews, and I’ll even look at a variety of reviews and kind of take an average opinion poll. If I see the one review, the one-star review, and somebody just hated it, but then there’s a bunch of five-star reviews, I even try to do my own diligence on the quality of the reviews as I’m looking at them.


Davey – 00:18:35:


Oh, 100%. And it’s so interesting because I think good social proof can cover a multitude of website sins. I’ve bought stuff off a Facebook ad because there’s 300 comments and people are like, oh, this is amazing. And same thing going to a website, just seeing 50 plus reviews for a product. But one of the things that reviews do well, especially if you can include reviews that are in your customer’s own words. So I’m thinking like Amazon style reviews at the bottom of the page. Is that all those things that we were just talking about, really understanding your audience, well, you have other people talking about how this product or service worked for them. And I think that’s really powerful, people putting that into their own words. And I think that’s why things like user-generated content is so important these days and so popular these days as well.


Izach – 00:19:22:


And so can BDOW! help with that? Can it help increase your reviews? I imagine you could at checkout or after checkout, maybe that becomes an email follow-up. I mean, is there any functionality to get more user-generated content?


Davey – 00:19:38:


Yeah, so BDOW! can help on the social proof side on a number of different levels. One, just using pop-ups to highlight social proof. So we have, you know, I think the most common example I see is with what we call a scroll box. And so it’s a pop-up that appears in like, let’s say the bottom right-hand corner of the page, and it scrolls with you. And one of the things that you can do, or one of the things that I’ve seen people do with this scroll box, is they’ll put a review from a customer in there, and then they’ll put a call to action to read more reviews. And this is a great way to highlight reviews if you have a lot of reviews. Something similar you can do to get more reviews is after somebody checks out, if you want to prompt them to leave a review, you could, again, use a pop-up that targets the, you know, checkout completion page and put a call to action there to get more reviews. I think I don’t see that as commonly, in part because if someone just bought a product, you know, they have to get that product and use that product before you ask, or review. But we see people use those sorts of pop-ups to collect feedback on the checkout experience, which is another good way to create sort of a circle in, or a feedback loop, so that you can constantly be improving your checkout experience in hopes to increase conversion rates. But you could use it for any sort of thing, you know, it could be like, how smooth was the checkout experience? Or, hey, check us out here, and just including a call to action to get people to take whatever the next step is in the customer journey.


Izach – 00:21:05:


All right. So we talked about some things people are doing wrong. I think we touched on this a little bit, but I want to ask you the question specifically, what are some of the easiest ways for brands or brands that are listening to the show to increase their conversion rate? Maybe whether they’re using a tool like BDOW! or not, then maybe feel free to speak to that however you want.


Davey – 00:21:28:


Yeah, I think building an email list is one of the most important things. One of the things that I really appreciated from your, it was your episode with Adam of OwnLoop, or he just recently sold OwnLoop. He talked a bit about the importance of building an email list. And I really appreciated that, especially as a guy who also has a background in digital advertising. Facebook ads, things on other platforms occasionally get shut down. And oftentimes, when an ad account gets shut down, it’s for… For sometimes no reason. It’s a mistake, right?


Izach – 00:22:03:


Oh, for sure. Yeah, I’ve seen it so many times while we’re selling a brand that you get locked or shut down or get a campaign pulled and you have to go through a process to get that back. And a lot of times it’s just something, some keyword in there triggered and automatic. Decision from Meta that takes you down for a week or something.


Davey – 00:22:25:


Yeah, we worked with a brand and they had a lot of alcohol-related products just in their brand. They weren’t selling alcohol or anything like that. But for whatever reason, that flagged something in the algorithm. And so they constantly dealt with that issue where campaigns were either getting paused or their ad account was suspended. And so that kind of thing can set you back a couple of weeks and no one wants that. And so building an email list, I think, is a good way to be able to follow up with people and continue to nurture them. And depending on the price of the product you’re selling, this might be necessary. If you’re selling a product under $100, then maybe you can get away with just the ad game, just running paid traffic to your site and trusting your site to convert on that. But I think, thinking back to my ad agency days, the brands that experienced consistent growth versus those that didn’t were often those brands who had some sort of lead generation strategy in place. They were capturing email addresses on their website, besides just those email addresses of customers purchasing a product. So they’re building this email list. They can nurture people on the back-end and they can really go through that journey with people to get them to be comfortable enough to actually purchase a product. So yeah, I mean, I think building an email list is one of those things that two people overlook in the beginning. Maybe things go really well in the beginning, but then at some point, things are going to plateau. It just happens. I think Adam, talked a little bit about that in his episode where he got to a point where increasing customer lifetime value became really important for him as a means towards growth. And so building an email list, if you don’t have an email list, then it’s really hard to increase your customer lifetime value because you have no way to really remarket to the people who have purchased from you. So, yeah, that’s it.


Izach – 00:24:18:


I would add too that, you know, in addition, so email lists can help you drive sales, increase repeat purchase rate. Maybe increase average order value. It also adds value to the business from an enterprise value basis when we go to sell the business. So, you know, and if you look at any of the website closers listings, when a brand has a substantial amount of emails and it could be, that might mean 25,000 or 250,000, you know, we sell brands that have a couple hundred thousand emails on their list that they’ve generated through capturing visitors to their website. There’s a premium that gets paid for that when we transact because buyers attribute the value that you’re talking about, Davey. They know, hey, that’s a list of customers that I can harvest, that I already know who my brand is, that I can go back out to and I can talk to, I can communicate with, I can build a relationship with. And it’s one of the biggest reasons why not to just burn your email list too. And just blow it up so that people… You don’t want people to start unsubscribing because there’s too much content. So that email list really is valuable. And the acquisition costs for customers continues to get higher. So the more value you can drive out of every time somebody lands on your page, the better off you’re going to be in the long run for sure.


Davey – 00:25:40:


Yeah, 100%. And I can attest to that. I mean, going through the acquisition process and thinking through whether we just wanted to build a tool like BDOW! or purchase something, one of the appealing things about purchasing something is the amount of leads that come with potentially purchasing that asset. So yeah, I definitely seen that in my own experience as well.


Izach – 00:26:01:


For me, I always think it’s an interesting perspective to think of. What’s the immediate business value? But then also, does this also further increase the value of my business when I exit? And usually, there’s a positive correlation between those two things. Because if I’m driving more revenue, driving more profit, that automatically is going to increase the valuation of my business. But there are certain features that buyers are looking for that are more valuable things, like email list, repeating purchase rate, all the key performance indicators that we list at the sale. If and as I’m building brands, I’m thinking about… How do I increase those KPIs that are going to grow my business, going to make my business more profitable, but also going to create outsized value for me at the exit?


Davey – 00:26:51:


Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And as far as helping you build those assets, BDOW! can help in a number of different ways. I talked about the brand photographers who use the exit intent pop-up for the webinar registration page. We have somebody else who, they sell website templates and they targeted their in-cart page with a bump offer. And so basically a bump offer is just an offer that increases the total value in cart. So for example, somebody adds a website template to their cart. When they get to that checkout page, they see a pop-up that says, hey, add our social media Canva guide or Canva templates for an extra whatever. And it’s typically a discount because they already have added a certain amount to their cart. You get this other product for a discounted rate. In the first week, they make $5,000 more than what they otherwise would have made without that, without that bump offer.


Izach – 00:27:51:


I think I’m personally a sucker for bump offers. I didn’t actually know the term until you said it, but when I’m checking out and somebody offers me a discount on something else, especially if it’s anything I’ve looked at previously. I’m like, I am… I’m an easy mark for that.


Davey – 00:28:06:


I mean, and that’s why you see so many of them. I am too. I mean, pretty much everybody is, right? And you have, you know, bump offers can take a lot of different forms, but there’s other offers you can make in cart too, you know, like offering free shipping if people hit a certain amount. You know, I was thinking about a supplement company I just ordered stuff from and I’m like $25 off of free shipping. You know, like logically it makes no sense to purchase one more thing to get free shipping, right?


Izach – 00:28:29:


Well, if you’re going to buy it anyway, it does. You know, if you’re like, I’m going to buy two bottles eventually, you know, so I might as well get free shipping.


Davey – 00:28:38:


For me, I always, I add something like I’m going to try or I wouldn’t have bought anyway. So it really doesn’t make any sense logically. But, you know, that’s how those things work. You know, they get you to make that extra purchase. And they know when you have a product, right, you’re going to go through it quicker. So even if you were to buy two, you know, two bottles, let’s say, a lot of times just by having it, you’re going to go through more of it more quickly. You know, so those in-cart offers can be really valuable as well. We already talked a little bit about leveraging customer reviews, testimonials. You know, one of the things that I saw too that I thought was interesting and following up with this person as well. So she was sharing with me that she uses a pop-up to highlight her best-selling products. And, you know, one of the things that she sells is templates. And I think it’s interesting because I would think when somebody’s buying a template, they would want to buy a template that’s not like everybody else’s, right? But people want to know. Okay, what is the best-selling product, right? Because, you know, it’s a form of social proof, right? If a lot of other people are buying this and it’s working for them, then it will probably work for me too. And so pop-ups are a great way to highlight, you know, what some of your best sellers are or, you know, vice versa if you have stuff on clearance as well.


Izach – 00:29:53:


Gotcha. All right. Very cool. So at the beginning of our conversation, you mentioned A-B testing. And I wanted to come back to that because I’m just a big fan of A/B testing for campaigns in general. But how does BDOW! facilitate A/B testing? And how are you guys thinking about it relative to conversion rates and the tools that are in your platform?


Davey – 00:30:16:


Yeah, we have a great, very flexible A/B testing tool. And so it’s really easy when you’re creating a form or a pop-up in your account, you basically click a button, add variant, and then you can create a variation of that pop-up. And then from there, you can actually set how often you want that variant to show up. So you can, of course, standards just, 50-50. Half the people see variation A, half the people see variation B. But let’s say you wanted to take a little bit of risk. You feel pretty confident about the messaging you already have, but you want to test this other variation. You could set it so it’s 70-30 or 80-20 or something like that. How I think about A-B testing is typically along the lines of testing one variable at a time. Oftentimes, we see people run A/B tests and they’re just vastly different offers or whatnot. And that’s not a great test because you don’t really know what’s working. My wife actually, like I said, she does brand and website design. She also sells things like website templates. But she was using Bedow to run an A/B test on a lead gen, like a lead magnet that she was offering. And it was basically social media Canva templates. So these templates that you can customize in Canva and use for social media. And she just changed the title and it greatly improved the performance of or the overall conversion rate, basically, the angle that she had gone with were launch graphics. So basically, when you launch your website, here are the graphics you can use. And she just changed it to, hey, social media templates. These are templates that you can use anytime in social media. It outperformed the original by 10 to 1 or something silly like that. And we were running ads to this. And so the cost per lead came down from a few dollars to under a dollar. And under a dollar…


Izach – 00:32:07:


You love that, don’t you? I mean…


Davey – 00:32:09:


I haven’t seen that since pre-2018.


Izach – 00:32:12:




Davey – 00:32:14:




Izach – 00:32:14:


But when you do an A/B test and you see like, you find, you know, you get, you hit gold like that. Like you find something that’s 10 times outperforming, your example, 10 times outperforming the original variant. That’s just so… I could just geek out on that stuff because it’s just like… You’re like, oh man, I know I’m going to, I’m going to blow this out now.


Davey – 00:32:34:


Oh yeah, for sure. And you know, if you know, you know, if you’re building an email list and you know how much each lead is worth to you, you know, that sort of thing makes a big difference, even if it’s not 10 to one, you know, and most of them aren’t for sure. But it’s really interesting. I think what it highlights is that she made no adjustment to the actual download itself. She made no adjustment really to like, you know, the promotional text within the offer itself. Really, she just changed the title of the download. She didn’t even change that in the, you know, follow up emails. It was just a test like, okay, maybe this will get people to download. And so that simple change to a headline validated idea, and then she can go and make those updates and not spend a lot of time up-front making those updates before knowing whether they would pay off or not.


Izach – 00:33:20:


Very cool stuff. What are some of the biggest success stories that you’ve had at BDOW! ? What are some wins for your clients?


Davey – 00:33:30:


Yeah, yeah, for sure. A number of them I’ve already talked about. One of the companies that’s using us, she also sells show website templates. She’s using that. She’s targeting her cart with an in-cart bump offer for her social media Canva templates. And like I said, she made a few extra thousand dollars in the first week implementing that. I haven’t followed up on the numbers since, but if you go to their website, you’ll still see it there. So I’m sure it’s still working. But one of the coolest things, I think, since taking over and getting to know our customers is how this tool is very easy to implement, especially if you’re on WooCommerce or Shopify and you have that e-commerce angle. And by running discount campaigns and things like that, I was talking to one customer and they did a limited test with our discount coupon campaign type. Again, this is you connect to WooCommerce or you connect to Shopify and it generates a unique discount for you. And they made over $13,000 just with this one campaign. And talking to people like that and looking back at our best performers, we have accounts that have made over $12 million running discount campaigns using our tool. So yeah, those have been awesome. And the more people I talk to, especially over this last six months as we’ve settled into BDOW! and getting to know our customers, it’s a tool that just works. And no matter what you’re looking to do, we can help, especially on the lead generation side or messaging side, just getting the right message in front of the right person.


Izach – 00:35:14:


Awesome. So what’s the one question you need to answer to succeed in digital marketing and lead conversion?


Davey – 00:35:22:


Yeah, I talked about this a little bit when I was talking about understanding the person that you’re selling to. But I really think that the question that people are asking themselves when they’re making a purchase is, can you really do that, whatever it is that you offer, for someone like me? And I think you can answer that question well. You’re going to get a conversion most of the time. But it takes a little bit of work understanding the buyer persona and what really motivates people to purchase. That’s one of the reasons why I love our A/B testing tool is because you can play around with things like messaging and figure out what is the message that actually hits with people. And so many times people tell me after using our A/B testing tool, they’re like, oh, you know, I… I didn’t think this was going to work at all, you know, but it was actually this message. You know, I think Adam actually, now that I think about, you know, he had something similar happen with the bands he was selling, you know, from OwnLoop, right? He, had this random band and he was like, for sure, this one is not going to be the one. And then it ended up being the one. So many times that happens with messaging. So when I talk to my team, we really talk about that question. Can you really do that for someone like me? And what are the different levers that you can pull that reinforce that you can offer whatever transformation is that you’re offering? What are those levers that you can pull to back that up? I think anytime you make a claim on your website, you should back that claim up with social proof. Somebody putting into their own words how your product or service helped them achieve whatever desired result.


Izach – 00:36:53:


Very cool, man. So what’s the best way that our listeners could connect with you or BDOW!?


Davey – 00:37:00:


Yeah, awesome. If you just go to, that’s, you can check us out there, see what our tool is all about, and sign up. You can use the code DEALCLOSERS for 50% off your first year. You can also find us on social media @BDOWLEADS, so B-D-O-W-L-E-A-D-S, pretty much across any social media platform. So wherever we are, we’re @BDOWLEADS.


Izach – 00:37:33:


That was Davey Jones. And if you’re looking for pop-ups that convert, head on over to That’s Use the promo code DEALCLOSERS. Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of the Deal Closers podcast brought to you by If you like the show, be sure to rate us, write a review, press the follow button, and share us with your network. Of course, if you’re looking for help selling your e-commerce or technology business, be sure to visit This episode was edited and produced by Earfluence. I’m Izach Porter. Follow me on LinkedIn, and we’ll see you next time on the Deal Closers podcast.